Bipolar II Rapid Cycling or Cyclothymia

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Vikki
January 5, 2009 - 1:28 pm
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Vikki
Total Posts: 24
Joined: 05-21-2008
Well my Pdoc can't make up his mind! No surprise there!

Not that I'm overly bothered (apart from the actual amount of support I would get at work if the condition wasn't usually described as a 'Mild form of...').

See I was under the impression that if a person had had severe depressive episodes (mine were severe with one attempted suicide) they were automatically excluded from the Cyclothymia diagnosis.

I'm currently treated with a level of meds that are very mild. they were enough to being me out of 'crisis' stage that I was in and allow me to get back into employment but I'm still experiencing bed ridden depressions and overspending sleep reduced highs.

I was just wondering, of those of you with BP2, what levels of meds are you on and to what level has that evened out your cycle?

Also has anyone else experienced a 'dual cycle'? Where a shorter cycle exists of the usual highs and lows but a longer term cycle is apparent wher during it's highs the highs are more prominant and the depressions less severe and it's lows mean severe depressions and milder highs?



Medications for January 2009
05-27-2008 - Present:Depakote, 250 mg. Twice a day
05-27-2008 - Present:Seroquel, 50 mg. Once a day at night
07-12-2008 - Present:Duloxetine, 60 mg. Once a day in morning

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Vikki
Vikki
January 5, 2009 - 1:28 pm
Well my Pdoc can't make up his mind! No surprise there!

Not that I'm overly bothered (apart from the actual amount of support I would get at work if the condition wasn't usually described as a 'Mild form of...').

See I was under the impression that if a person had had severe depressive episodes (mine were severe with one attempted suicide) they were automatically excluded from the Cyclothymia diagnosis.

I'm currently treated with a level of meds that are very mild. they were enough to being me out of 'crisis' stage that I was in and allow me to get back into employment but I'm still experiencing bed ridden depressions and overspending sleep reduced highs.

I was just wondering, of those of you with BP2, what levels of meds are you on and to what level has that evened out your cycle?

Also has anyone else experienced a 'dual cycle'? Where a shorter cycle exists of the usual highs and lows but a longer term cycle is apparent wher during it's highs the highs are more prominant and the depressions less severe and it's lows mean severe depressions and milder highs?



Medications for January 2009
05-27-2008 - Present:Depakote, 250 mg. Twice a day
05-27-2008 - Present:Seroquel, 50 mg. Once a day at night
07-12-2008 - Present:Duloxetine, 60 mg. Once a day in morning

amberlynn79
January 9, 2009 - 4:15 pm
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amberlynn79
Total Posts: 30
Joined: 12-21-2008
I am not sure what cyclothymia is but based on your description, I think that I may suffer from it to.

I find that I am doing really well and then something stressful happens and then I am DEPRESSED (suicidal) for days. I don't want to function, get out of bed, leave the house, etc.

Would this be accurate for the cyclothymia?



Medications for January 2009
06-01-2008 - Present:Lamictal, 150 mg. One time per day
06-01-2008 - Present:Xanax, 1 mg. Twice per day
12-23-2008 - Present:Depakote XR Double, 1500 mg. Once in early morning hours

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amberlynn79
amberlynn79
January 9, 2009 - 4:15 pm
I am not sure what cyclothymia is but based on your description, I think that I may suffer from it to.

I find that I am doing really well and then something stressful happens and then I am DEPRESSED (suicidal) for days. I don't want to function, get out of bed, leave the house, etc.

Would this be accurate for the cyclothymia?



Medications for January 2009
06-01-2008 - Present:Lamictal, 150 mg. One time per day
06-01-2008 - Present:Xanax, 1 mg. Twice per day
12-23-2008 - Present:Depakote XR Double, 1500 mg. Once in early morning hours

Vikki
January 11, 2009 - 4:46 am
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Vikki
Total Posts: 24
Joined: 05-21-2008
Sorry, I can't have been clear. Cyclothymia is the diagnosis when Hypomania (mild highs) are experienced but not major depression.

I'm not sure about on and off depression... Perhaps reactive depression?


-----------
It's just not as easy as pulling yourself together nor does 'everyone has mood swings' come close.
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Vikki
Vikki
January 11, 2009 - 4:46 am
Sorry, I can't have been clear. Cyclothymia is the diagnosis when Hypomania (mild highs) are experienced but not major depression.

I'm not sure about on and off depression... Perhaps reactive depression?


-----------
It's just not as easy as pulling yourself together nor does 'everyone has mood swings' come close.
ajneat
January 11, 2009 - 2:37 pm
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ajneat
Total Posts: 14
Joined: 09-08-2008
I'm not sure what's going on with me. i don't know if rapid cycling or cyclothymia is to cause for things going on with me. Here are my charts.



Medications for January 2009
09-08-2008 - Present:Trileptal, 300 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Effexor XR, 150 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Seroquel, 250 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Wellbutrin, 300 mg. at morning
09-08-2008 - Present:klonopin, 1 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Klonopin, .5. in the morning
09-08-2008 - Present:Trileptal, 300 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Effexor XR, 150 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Seroquel, 250 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Wellbutrin, 300 mg. at morning
09-08-2008 - Present:klonopin, 1 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Klonopin, .5. in the morning
01-07-2009 - Present:Trazodone, 50 mg. at night

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ajneat
ajneat
January 11, 2009 - 2:37 pm
I'm not sure what's going on with me. i don't know if rapid cycling or cyclothymia is to cause for things going on with me. Here are my charts.



Medications for January 2009
09-08-2008 - Present:Trileptal, 300 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Effexor XR, 150 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Seroquel, 250 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Wellbutrin, 300 mg. at morning
09-08-2008 - Present:klonopin, 1 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Klonopin, .5. in the morning
09-08-2008 - Present:Trileptal, 300 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Effexor XR, 150 mg. twice a day
09-08-2008 - Present:Seroquel, 250 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Wellbutrin, 300 mg. at morning
09-08-2008 - Present:klonopin, 1 mg. at night
09-08-2008 - Present:Klonopin, .5. in the morning
01-07-2009 - Present:Trazodone, 50 mg. at night

HoosierK
January 19, 2009 - 12:18 pm
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HoosierK
Total Posts: 265
Joined: 08-30-2008
A site that has helped me better understand the complexity of mood, energy & intellect cycles is
www.psycheducation.org/depress...


The only place that you can find perfection on Earth today is in the dictionary.
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HoosierK
HoosierK
January 19, 2009 - 12:18 pm
A site that has helped me better understand the complexity of mood, energy & intellect cycles is
www.psycheducation.org/depress...


The only place that you can find perfection on Earth today is in the dictionary.
soandso
January 24, 2009 - 4:11 pm
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soandso
Total Posts: 15
Joined: 11-18-2008
If you have even one Major Depressive Episode or Manic or Mixed Episode within the first 2 years of the cyclothymic symptoms, it rules out Cyclothymic Disorder as a diagnosis. However, after the first two years of those symptoms, if you have a depressive/manic/mixed episode, they can diagnose Cyclothymic Disorder in addition to a Bipolar I or II Disorder, but not within the first two years. If it happens within the first two years, you would get a diagnosis of one of the Bipolar Disorders alone, rather than with the Cyclothymic Disorder (assuming your symptoms are not caused by a completely different disorder or medical condition).

Here is a diagnositc description of Cyclothymic Disorder from the DSM:

"The essential features of Cyclothymic Disorder is a chronic, fluctuating mood disturbance involving numerous periods of hypomanic symptoms, and numerous periods of depressive symptoms. The hypomanic symptoms are of insufficient number, severity, pervasiveness, or duration to meet full criteria for a Manic Episode, and the depressive symptoms are of insufficient number, severity, pervasiveness, or duration to meet full criteria for a Major Depressive Episode. During the 2-year period (1 year for children or adolescents), any symptom-free intervals last no longer than 2 months."

Hope that helped.

Also, to answer your question, I'm dxed BPII and have tried 15 different meds with no lasting success with any of them. I'm currently taking Topamax 100mg at night. That's the only med I take right now. Meds work differently for everyone, and it's especially hard to find the right med(s) when the dx is unclear. My hypomanic episodes are few and far between, the depressive episodes are the major problem right now. Can't seem to find any meds that really help them. So unfortunately I'm still searching for something helpful. The Topamax is alright, but hasn't completely evened me out regarding the depression.


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soandso
soandso
January 24, 2009 - 4:11 pm
If you have even one Major Depressive Episode or Manic or Mixed Episode within the first 2 years of the cyclothymic symptoms, it rules out Cyclothymic Disorder as a diagnosis. However, after the first two years of those symptoms, if you have a depressive/manic/mixed episode, they can diagnose Cyclothymic Disorder in addition to a Bipolar I or II Disorder, but not within the first two years. If it happens within the first two years, you would get a diagnosis of one of the Bipolar Disorders alone, rather than with the Cyclothymic Disorder (assuming your symptoms are not caused by a completely different disorder or medical condition).

Here is a diagnositc description of Cyclothymic Disorder from the DSM:

"The essential features of Cyclothymic Disorder is a chronic, fluctuating mood disturbance involving numerous periods of hypomanic symptoms, and numerous periods of depressive symptoms. The hypomanic symptoms are of insufficient number, severity, pervasiveness, or duration to meet full criteria for a Manic Episode, and the depressive symptoms are of insufficient number, severity, pervasiveness, or duration to meet full criteria for a Major Depressive Episode. During the 2-year period (1 year for children or adolescents), any symptom-free intervals last no longer than 2 months."

Hope that helped.

Also, to answer your question, I'm dxed BPII and have tried 15 different meds with no lasting success with any of them. I'm currently taking Topamax 100mg at night. That's the only med I take right now. Meds work differently for everyone, and it's especially hard to find the right med(s) when the dx is unclear. My hypomanic episodes are few and far between, the depressive episodes are the major problem right now. Can't seem to find any meds that really help them. So unfortunately I'm still searching for something helpful. The Topamax is alright, but hasn't completely evened me out regarding the depression.


ssheehy
February 9, 2009 - 2:10 pm
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ssheehy
Total Posts: 10
Joined: 11-20-2007
All I can say is that Depakote was EVIL for me; made me gain over 60 pounds in about three months and it's been hard to lose. I lost the weight once when I ate only boiled egg whites, broccoli, and plain potatoes for a few months while working out....I got my figure back, but as soon as i stopped the crazy diet and working out, I gained the weight back quickly. Obesity is in my family BUT I was never obese until I took Depakote. there are so many other AED's out there that it makes me angry "they" still Rx Depakote...like "they" don't care if we gain weight, as if that doesn't also cause mental issues!!!!


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ssheehy
ssheehy
February 9, 2009 - 2:10 pm
All I can say is that Depakote was EVIL for me; made me gain over 60 pounds in about three months and it's been hard to lose. I lost the weight once when I ate only boiled egg whites, broccoli, and plain potatoes for a few months while working out....I got my figure back, but as soon as i stopped the crazy diet and working out, I gained the weight back quickly. Obesity is in my family BUT I was never obese until I took Depakote. there are so many other AED's out there that it makes me angry "they" still Rx Depakote...like "they" don't care if we gain weight, as if that doesn't also cause mental issues!!!!


symbeline
February 14, 2009 - 12:42 am
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symbeline
Total Posts: 8
Joined: 09-06-2008
Interesting information. I will have to speak with my new pdoc about this next week as their diagnosis for me was cyclothymia (I always thought BP II rapid cycling, due to the severe lows).



Medications for February 2009
02-06-2009 - Present:Effexor, 150 mg. once daily

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symbeline
symbeline
February 14, 2009 - 12:42 am
Interesting information. I will have to speak with my new pdoc about this next week as their diagnosis for me was cyclothymia (I always thought BP II rapid cycling, due to the severe lows).



Medications for February 2009
02-06-2009 - Present:Effexor, 150 mg. once daily

cristty25
February 27, 2009 - 12:57 pm
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cristty25
Total Posts: 59
Joined: 02-27-2009
I was diagnosed ciclotimc but reading a book I had my doubts about having bipolar II, I have depression but it doesnt last long, I get also agitated and have OCD, but my depression can be really bad one day and get better the very next day, and then I get happy, but not totally manic, I habent had a manic episod in years I think, last one wwas a couple years ago when I was on lexparo and I had no ideia I was ciclothimic, I wasnt totally manic thought I was just really happy and very party, going out a lot, very flerty, sleeping around and feeling ultrapowefull, but not extremmly noticebely by others. latelly I have more mixed states, a lot of anger, OCD, agitation or depression, dont feel like doing anything, like notjhing gives me pleasure, that hapened after I had a baby. Several days I feel like not getting out of the house. what am i? i never attemped suicide or anything like that, but had crises where I cannot stop crying for hours. I am knew in this bipolar world can sombody give me some help :)



Medications for February 2009
12-12-2008 - 02-07-2009:Effexor, 75 mg. once a day
12-27-2008 - 02-14-2009:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
12-27-2008 - 02-14-2009:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-07-2009 - 02-14-2009:Topamax, 75 mg. topamax
02-07-2009 - 02-14-2009:Effexor, 112.5. once a day
02-14-2009 - 02-27-2009:Effexor, 75 mg. once a day
02-14-2009 - Present:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-14-2009 - 02-27-2009:Effexor, 75 mg. once a day
02-14-2009 - Present:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-20-2009 - 02-27-2009:lexapro, 0.5. once a day
02-14-2009 - Present:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-27-2009 - Present:lexapro, 10 mg. once a day
02-27-2009 - Present:Effexor, 37.5. once a day

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cristty25
cristty25
February 27, 2009 - 12:57 pm
I was diagnosed ciclotimc but reading a book I had my doubts about having bipolar II, I have depression but it doesnt last long, I get also agitated and have OCD, but my depression can be really bad one day and get better the very next day, and then I get happy, but not totally manic, I habent had a manic episod in years I think, last one wwas a couple years ago when I was on lexparo and I had no ideia I was ciclothimic, I wasnt totally manic thought I was just really happy and very party, going out a lot, very flerty, sleeping around and feeling ultrapowefull, but not extremmly noticebely by others. latelly I have more mixed states, a lot of anger, OCD, agitation or depression, dont feel like doing anything, like notjhing gives me pleasure, that hapened after I had a baby. Several days I feel like not getting out of the house. what am i? i never attemped suicide or anything like that, but had crises where I cannot stop crying for hours. I am knew in this bipolar world can sombody give me some help :)



Medications for February 2009
12-12-2008 - 02-07-2009:Effexor, 75 mg. once a day
12-27-2008 - 02-14-2009:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
12-27-2008 - 02-14-2009:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-07-2009 - 02-14-2009:Topamax, 75 mg. topamax
02-07-2009 - 02-14-2009:Effexor, 112.5. once a day
02-14-2009 - 02-27-2009:Effexor, 75 mg. once a day
02-14-2009 - Present:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-14-2009 - 02-27-2009:Effexor, 75 mg. once a day
02-14-2009 - Present:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-20-2009 - 02-27-2009:lexapro, 0.5. once a day
02-14-2009 - Present:Topamax, 25 mg. twince a day
02-27-2009 - Present:lexapro, 10 mg. once a day
02-27-2009 - Present:Effexor, 37.5. once a day

HoosierK
February 27, 2009 - 3:18 pm
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HoosierK
Total Posts: 265
Joined: 08-30-2008
Cristty25,

You are very fortunate to have this tool and forum to help you through this complicated journey. Your road should be shorter and less bumpy since you have access to this help. I wish that I would have had access to moodtracker years ago. It is really helping me fine-tune my treatment plan.

The other online support group that I highly recommend is

www.revolutionhealth.com/group...

From what very little you've described you might have what some researches are calling bipolar 3. There is a discussion about it on the ambush site.


Isaiah 65:17
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HoosierK
HoosierK
February 27, 2009 - 3:18 pm
Cristty25,

You are very fortunate to have this tool and forum to help you through this complicated journey. Your road should be shorter and less bumpy since you have access to this help. I wish that I would have had access to moodtracker years ago. It is really helping me fine-tune my treatment plan.

The other online support group that I highly recommend is

www.revolutionhealth.com/group...

From what very little you've described you might have what some researches are calling bipolar 3. There is a discussion about it on the ambush site.


Isaiah 65:17
cristty25
February 28, 2009 - 10:12 am
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cristty25
Total Posts: 59
Joined: 02-27-2009
thanks , but I didnt find the discussion, I dint think I have ciclothia, I never tried toi kill myself and my depressions are bad that I dnt want to leave the bed or even talk to people, usually they came with a lo tof agitation adn anger too. but they are gone easially, so ans my hypo moods. I cicle very very fast, its very strange and has a lot to do with my personal life, stress and how I sleep, anything, anything can be a trigger, its horrible


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cristty25
cristty25
February 28, 2009 - 10:12 am
thanks , but I didnt find the discussion, I dint think I have ciclothia, I never tried toi kill myself and my depressions are bad that I dnt want to leave the bed or even talk to people, usually they came with a lo tof agitation adn anger too. but they are gone easially, so ans my hypo moods. I cicle very very fast, its very strange and has a lot to do with my personal life, stress and how I sleep, anything, anything can be a trigger, its horrible


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