Is it a mood or an emotion?

I just started tracking at the end of January and I'm confused. I'm doing it morning and night but I change so often during the day I'm not really sure what to put in most of the time. I can go from very happy and talking a mile a minute to laying in my bed saying "Don't touch me!" when no one is even there in a matter of hours. Am I suffering from rapid mood cycles or am I mistaking my mood for current emotion? How do I tell the difference? I was told that it's like a song. Mood is the genre, like heavy rock would probably be manic, and emotion is more of the song itself. It has it's ups and downs which make it flow but underneath you can still tell what type of song it is. I seem to change from rock to easy listening then back. almost every day. Can someone please explain it better for me?

Hi Ya, Mooky! You know, you have a really great question here. It is excellent that you trying to process the difference between your biological responses (your mood) and your psychological responses (you emotions). In our culture, we use the words mood and emotions interchangeably. In understanding our disorders (either bipolar or depression) we have to understand them separately.

Here's a great quote that I found from a author who is well-known behavioral scientist. His name is Paul Eckman. He does a lot of the "face" stuff... reading people by reading their faces.

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This is a good place to distinguish emotions from moods. All of us have both of them, but they are different, even though both involve feelings. The obvious difference is that emotions are much shorter than moods. Moods can last a whole day, sometimes two days, while emotions can come and go in minutes, sometimes seconds. …

A mood activates specific emotions. When we are irritable, we are seeking an opportunity to become angry; we interpret the world in a way that permits, or even requires, us to become angry. …

Another way moods differ from emotions is that once an emotion has begun and we have become aware of it, we can usually point to the event that caused it. Rarely do we know why we are in a mood. It just seems to happen to us. …

Earlier I argued that emotions are necessary for our lives, and we wouldn't want to be rid of them. I am far less convinced that moods are of any use to us. … Moods narrow our alternatives, distort our thinking, and make it more difficult for us to control what we do, and usually for no reason that makes any sense to us. … If I could, I would forgo ever having any mood again and just live with my emotions. I would gladly give up euphoric moods to be rid of irritable and blue moods. But none of us have that choice.
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I completely agree with Dr. Eckman. My mood STRONGLY influences my emotions. My mood often dictates how I will respond to a certain situation. I work in a very high stress job with a great deal of responsibility. When my mood is stable, I roll with the punches, take things as they come, and don't let people/circumstances rattle me. When my mood is disturbed, I am grumpy, irritable, easily angered or offended, or easily frightened. I want to stay in bed (or go home and go back to bed), shut my office door and tell my staff to stay away (but I don't), and curl up in a little ball. Those are things that don't even cross my mind when my mood is stable.

As for the idea of rapid mood cycles... even when I am deeply depressed, I can be "distracted" from my depression by a friend or an event. I can surprise myself to find myself smiling and laughing, even though I KNOW I'm depressed. This isn't mood cycling, this is simply a respite.... a moment of peace that the disease sometimes gives us.

For example, I absolutely LOVE public speaking. I do it regularly. The bigger the audience the better. If I am depressed, it may be extremely difficult for me to prepare to the event, to get dressed and organized for the event... even to show up for the event. But, once I am "on stage" and doing my thing, it is very hard for me not to be distracted from my depression for those minutes or hours that I am in front of people. I smile, I laugh, I tell jokes, and I engage in witty banter with my audience all the while getting my very important message across. This doesn't mean that my depression is gone... for just as surely as I have to walk off the stage, the cloak... the dark cloud, will envelope me again, and it comes back pretty quickly. That doesn't make me a rapid cycler.

I hope this helps a little bit. Again, it is an excellent question.



Be well,
Jules

Jules.
Thank you so much. At least now I have some idea what I'm trying to track.
I don't have many things that make demands on me so it may be hard to see whether I'm more irritable when I do them or not but I'll keep my eyes out.

If I may, I have another question for you or perhaps others if they care to answer.
Sometimes, when I'm all alone or at least no one is close to me I feel like trying to push someone away. Like I'm being crowded even though there's no one near. If I'm alone I'll even yell..."Don't touch me!" or "Just back off and leave me alone!"
Am I the only one that freaks out like this? It doesn't seem to matter my emotions at the time. (Mood I'm not sure of since I just found out how to see those.) No one else in my family does so is it a bi-polar thing or do I have some other problem?

Mooky,

What you are describing sounds like a good description of how I feel when I am struggling with anxiety. I don't exactly put those words to my thoughts, but the sensations attached to what you are saying sounds a lot like anxiety. Has your provider talked to you about anxiety associated with your mood? It is a very common thing. That is one of the reasons that we track it here on moodtrack. Anxiety is a key to depression and bipolar disorder. Irritability is too.

That feeling of needing to someone (or something) to back-off, is a feeling like your own skin is on too tight... if that even makes sense.... at least, that is what it feels like to me. I feel like I might just "pop out of my skin" if I get any more anxious.

Here's a web site on coping with bipolar and anxiety. I think this page has some good information on it. It is certainly not complete. Anxiety that associated with a mood disorder is not a "simple" thing. (nor is the irritability) But, the more you know about it, the more you can develop strategies to cope with it. http://www.adaa.org/GettingHel...


Here's a very easy strategy that I use often when I feel my jets getting fired up...
BREATHE! If you breathe deeply, in through your nose, slowly and deliberately and then exhale through your mouth, you interrupt the anxiety cycle. You need to breathe in through your nose and take the air in all the way down to the bottom of your lungs before you exhale. It is amazing how that helps to relax me. You have to do it at least 3 times in a row.

Believe it or not, this silly little strategy is rooted in science. (now you're going to find out why I'm such a geek!) Anxiety and stress tends to overheat your brain (literally). Breathing through your nose actually cools your brain and allows you to begin to think clearly again. It also does one other thing. Anxiety and stress are often an unconscious process. We don't do it on purpose... it just happens. Well, breathing is like that. We don't do it on purpose, it just happens. If we take back control of our breathing, and actually DO IT on purpose, it interrupts our unconscious processes. It kind of gets our brain's attention. And now, we're saying "Pay attention, I want you to calm down." It's kind of cool. It really works.

Okay... enough geekiness for one night.

Be well,
Jules

Dear Jules
That''s anxiety? Really? I've always thought of anxiety as the times when I'm shaky and feel my heart pounding a mile a minute (like when I'm in an enclosed place. Claustrophobia sucks ." Boy have I been messing up my charting then because I haven't been marking anxiety hardly at all and I do the "Don't touch me!" thing maybe twice a week.
I thought I understood but if I can mistake emotions for moods and Don't touch me for just being weird it makes me think what else I'm screwing up on.
Thank you so much for helping me learn. You answer questions in a way I can understand.
I'm going back through and reading my log and marking Anxiety where ever I wrote in that stuff.
TYVM

Mooky

I just went through and read my log. This is the chart the way I am pretty sure it should have been. Bummer to have to back track like that but at least when I read what I wrote I can feel my skin crawl if it was one of those kinds of days.

Thanks for the great topic Mooky!!!
Thanks for the great responses Jules!!!

I was actually trying to figure out the difference between mood & emotion just last week. I too wasn't sure whether there even was a difference.

I think my problem has always been that an extreme emotion can trigger a bipolar episode but there is no logic to the mood it triggers. For example, I just had a good yearly evaluation and felt happy very briefly and then I became severly depressed. At other times I can experience a happy emotion and then become hypomanic. My theory is that I was on the edge of an episode already and the stress of the emotion was the final straw. Anymore I just try to avoid extreme emotions for fear of the deep depression it might trigger.

Mooks and Kef... Thank you. It is my pleasure. I'm just answering from my experience... and I'm glad to help. This is just one person's opinion/experience. I am ALWAYS a believer in putting more information on the table so that we can become WISE consumers healthcare and WISE survivors of our disorders. I am ALSO a major, major advocate of never making a change without talking to your doc! I'm very glad that we have this wonderful support group (woo hooo Moodtracker!!!), but our Pdocs, in partnership with us, are the final authorities!

Mooky, I am glad that my words are clear and understandable to you. One of the things that I do as a public speaker is to try to make difficult topics more clear to people who have taken their valuable time to listen to me. Therefore, I try to do the same thing when I am writing to folks. It is one of my 'joys" of geekiness.... taking the complex and making it manageable.

I know... I'm weird... there are very few people who find joy in such a thing... LOL

Kef, you know... I would encourage you to do a little google-type research on emotional triggers to full blown mood swings. I kinda look at what you wrote and go, "hmmmmm." I wonder if the strong emotion might have been a precursor to the mood, say a biological marker that the mood was already in the wings and ready to bloom ... rather than a trigger. I would hate to see you live a life of blunted emotions if it weren't really necessary for you to do so. I mean if a mood swing is already on its way, then it might be a forgone conclusion whether you feel a great deal of emotion or not. I dunno. But, it is at least worth looking into. Just a thought.

Mooks... I could be wrong about your "get away from me" feeling. Only you can say for sure whether or not it is anxiety. But if it FEELS like anxiety, put that label on it for a little while, wear that label for a little while and see if it fits. If it doesn't, then take it off. Whatever the case.... don't forget to BREATHE!! :) You'll always see me say BREATHE!! lol

be well,
Jules

Hi all; I have just gotten to the point where I am having some good days--not up, not down, just calm and coping well and actually enjoying doing things. Ok---so is that Baseline?

Mooks---when I was first diagnosed about 10 years ago they called in Major Depression with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I have this kind of free-floating anxiety which IS NOT the same as a panic or phobia type attack. This anxiety can attach itself to almost any negative mood or emotion for me and amplify it. Unlike a panic attack which generally only lasts 20 minutes or so (tho it can feel like longer) and can usually be traced to some triggering event or thought the anxiety thing usually comes out of nowhere and is paralyzing. If I am up, I want to go back to bed, if I'm in bed I have to get up because the fear gives me headaches and I get scared of the dark.

Now they say I have Bipolar two and this kind of anxiety is a characteristic of that illness, along with irritability--which I also get.

At least an accurate diagnosis makes communication easier--now I no longer have to say "Well, its like panic but lasts longer and I can't tell what started it " everytime I talk about being anxious. Yes, to me your "don't touch me" sounds like a bipolar two thing. Words are agravating sometimes, I'm never sure the other person is hearing what I mean. I hope you feel better soon.

Kef: I agree with Jules, i can be in a depressed mood and still have some sunlight moments--like watching my kitten play. I am not sure emotions cause mood in anyway--but I think the kind of mood I am in definitly amplifies emotions. Yesterday was good but I got lousy sleep last night and today--well lets not talk about today. I think our society likes to underestimate the importantance of sleep and how it affects moods and emotions both.

Jules: I used to love the teaching part of my job but now I feel I fumble around with the words. Even if I know what I am feeling ---putting the words to it is a lot harder. I am glad you are helping us all so much.

Lizabeth,

I'm sure you can still teach!! You are very well spoken and you express yourself very well on this group. I value your input. Maybe when you get your meds straightened out, you could figure out a way to market yourself and get back into teaching workshops on a very part time basis!!

Hugs,
Jules

Lizabeth
Bi polar 2? I'm so confused about what each diagnosis means and doesn't mean I'm pulling my hair out. I tried to study the different types of bipolar and how to recognize each one but it all just jumbled up in my head. Like my daughter always says TMI!!!
It seems every thing I read is so full of information that I get lost in it. I'm an intelligent woman but to tell you the truth I feel like the village idiot when it comes to bi-polar. Heck. Until I started coming to mood tracker at the end of last month I didn't even know there was more than one kind of bi polar and I'd never heard of hypo mania. I thought it was just manic or depressive. You people, through your kind and blessedly clearly stated information, are helping me more than you all know. Thanks so much.

Mooks... You are NOT alone in having your poor head spinning with ALL of the information that is out there about bipolar and mania and hypomania and this and that and all the other. There is a LOT to digest. So... just kindly remove the dunce cap that you put on your head and that village idiot sign from around your neck, okay? It doesn't belong there. Anyway, it doesn't match your outfit.

Did ya do it? Good! (you know I'm just pickin' on ya, right??)

Okay.... let me be put on my geek hat (I went to the closet and found the one that matched what I was wearing... I'm a bit of a diva geek!) and break down this bipolar I and II thing.

Bipolar I is the easiest to explain. It is pretty clear cut. It is diagnosed through the occurrence of depression and full-blown Mania. If those two things are not present, then there is NO Bipolar I. The Depression has clear criteria and the Mania has clear criteria. Either you have it, or you don't. If you would like links to see the criteria, I would be happy to provide them. However, the criteria are in Psycho-babble. That is where people tend to get hung up.

The best, and easiest way to describe Bipolar I (BPI) is that the disorder is the highest highs and the lowest lows. People who have BPI generally have several hospitalizations and often have periods of their lives where functioning is extremely difficult if not impossible. Although, it is possible to have BPI and function well in society.

Bipolar II is where things get a little more complex. A Bipolar II (BPII)diagnosis generally comes when people have a history of depressive moods and "hypomanic" moods. Hypo means "low" or "below," so hypomanic is a lower form of mania. It is like "mania light" or "not quite" manic. BPII can still be debilitating to people, but generally due to the depression. The hypomania can get people into trouble with debt or sex, over productivity, or sleeplessness, but not the same kind of trouble as someone who has a full Manic episode.

BPII is harder to diagnose because many people with BPII remain under the radar of their doctors for years and years... often just being treated for their depression and/or anxiety (for decades, even) until something critical happens. Why does this happen? Because people will tell their doctors when they're depressed. They will ask for help when they are depressed "enough." But... people rarely go to doctors and say, "Hey doc... I've been feeling TOO good lately... will ya do something about that." The hypomania causes "some" problems for a lot of people, but for more people, the problems aren't devastating. So, they don't seek help until something really bad happens, or until things are just uncomfortable "enough."

BPII, unfortunately, has MANY forms. It is not as cut & dry as BPI. BPII is also known as "soft" bipolar because it does not have the devastating life impacts that BPI tends to have. I won't get into the different types of BPII, because that is truly like a dissertation. But, I can point you to some readings if you would like to know more about that. Or if you have specific questions... fire away.

I hope this helps. I'm at work right now. So, I think I'll keep my geek hat on for a while. It will help me write the grant I'm working on. I just got to the point where I needed to work on the data part of the grant anyway. So, you just got me all good and warmed up!

Have a wonderful day, and be well,
Jules

Jules
What a wonderful Geek cap you wear. Seems to suit pretty much anything.
Thanks for the easy to digest run down.
My dunce cap is at least a lot looser fitting now. LOL
I can honestly say that I've only had one truly over the hills and freaking out everyone manic episode. It happened last Thanksgiving. Scared me, my kids and everyone around me. Does the fact that I did have one truly manic attack mean I've shifted from being a BPII to a BP I? Or is it something that I'd need to do more commonly? Do panic attacks count towards choosing a BP diagnosis? I've been in the hospital only once with one but was sure I was dieing.

Mooky: I think Jules (bless her) made a pretty good description of Bipolar One and Bipolar Two. As to which one you have, only you and your pdoc can really reach a conclusion on that question.

The one thing Jules said that I don't quite agree with is her description of Hypomania. Its harder to notice than mania, it doesen't usually result in loss of contact with reality (which can happen with the Manic part of Bipolar One) but, as I can personally attest too, it can be just as painful as Mania. Sometimes people keep functioning with it but not always, especially if, as happpened to me, they are misdiagnosed with Unipolar depression. Unipolar Depression is Depression and only Depression--no hypomanic symptoms at all. And since Hypomania can be quite sneaky and look like other things people (like me) can go years with the wrong diagnosis. And now, the pdoc industry is beginning to realize, not only the wrong diagnosis, but the wrong meds as well. Getting off the wrong meds (which I am now in the process of) is not fun.

Panic attacks do not help in deciding the type of Bipolar you have. Free floating anxiety and agitation however, does. Thats what I have and that, along with my complaints of feeling irritable all the time were what finally led my pdoc and her team ( I told you hypomania is sneaky, it took a team to pin it down for me) to realize I had Bipolar two and not Depression alone.

Panic attacks usually have a specific trigger, such as claustrophbia, fear of crowds, fear of an upcoming exam, fear of having an illness, etc. They are very intense with racing heartbeat, sweating, nausea, dizzyness, shortness of breath and probably some other syptoms I forgot to list. They are, however, usually of short duration, lasting about 20 minutes maximum although it certainly feels like longer while you are having one. Repeated panic attacks can lead to phobias, you try and aviod the situaion that triggers the attack, ie if you were driving on the freeway when you have an attack you try to avoid doing that again.

Free floating anxiety tho--usually has no specific trigger, does not always have as severe of symptoms but can last for hours and kind of freeze a person up so they can't get much done. Its like worry on steriods or gone into warp drive. It is often accompanied by intense feelings of irritability at oneself or others. It is a star symptom in the hypomania constellation, I had it for years but got accustomed to saying "I have these kind of panic attacks that aren't exactly panic attacks" because nobody had told me about hypomania.

Oh--and another reason you should not feel dumb---all of this stuff about Bipolars Two and onward (I think they are up to six now) is NEW as such things go in the pdoc community. A book I found very helpful is by Dr. Jim Phelps "Why AM I Still Depressed?' It really expains about hypomania and the whole mood disorder thing. I found it very reassuring because it flat out tells the reader that you are not crazy.

Even if you have Bipolar One, YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. And there is a lot of help available for either Bipolar or Depression. The trick is to be patient with yourself as you find the help you need. It can take a while to get treatment that works because, unlike diabetes or most other illnesses, we don't have lab tests and x-ray or other scans to help our pdocs know how we are doing. Its all words and they are not exactly precise. Still--you can get help and feel better.

Mooks... lol.... thanks for the compliment on my Geek cap!! I only shop at the finest Geek stores (but, I will not pay full price... ONLY clearance for this chck!) And when that ole dunce cap gets loose enough, just go ahead and slip it on off... DON'T let it fall down on your nose. Now that would just look silly!

As for your one "over the hills" freak out... you and your doc would have to really work that through and figure out exactly what that was. If it was a true manic episode that actually meets the criteria (they are VERY specific), then your doctor would have to take a look at the whole picture of YOU to determine if you your diagnosis is a I or II.

Lizabeth... I deeply apologize if I implied that hypomania was less painful that mania to those who experience it. It was not my intent. I, for one, can attest to my own pain and frustration at dealing with my hypomanic states and going for more than two decades without being properly diagnosed. I was always seen as person who was just a bit over the top (tigger, if you will) and little on the neurotic side with my anxieties. But the anxiety made me miserable.

I'm sure that I self-medicated my hypomania and my anxiety as a person in my late teens and early to mid twenties before I got into recovery for addiction. And then, once I was in recovery, I can CLEARLY remember asking my mental health practictioner if there was any way that I as manic depressive. He said no... but that was when there was only Bipolar I. You know, I kept journals from back in those days. My bipolar disorder is ALL OVER my writings. You would not even have to know me to know that I am bipolar.... just by reading the musings, pains, joys, terrors, and growth of a 20-something in early recovery.

Okay... back to work.... back to writing that grant. Oh joy, oh joy. BY THE WAY... I did sleep a little better last night. So, I'm a little perkier today! :)

Be well,
Jules

Lizabeth
Wouldn't it be great if there was a blood test or something that would tell us exactly what's going on in our heads and BP had an actual cure?
Yesterday was a bad day for me and I almost talked myself out of taking my meds, that is VERY rare for me. I've been med compliant all along but sometimes it seems like the more I find out the worse off I am. I tried to convince my husband that I'm a hypochondriac and to me it made sense.
When I was younger, and didn't even know what a mental health problem was, I felt fine.
I'd get mad and happy, depressed and excited not have a depressive episode and enter a hypomanic state.

Sometimes it can really feel like the PDOC's are just labeling me BP just to screw with me.

But then there are the other times.
The times when I have to pull over before I drive head long into a log truck or off a bridge. The times when I don't dare get behind the wheel of my car or pick up a large knife or gun because the urges are too strong to hurt myself. Not that I'm suicidal at those times. They're just sudden strong urges that melt away quickly but man are they powerful.
Or there's the times when I lose twenty pounds in two weeks because I'm so obsessed with writing my books I forget to eat. Spend weeks driving my husband crazy because all I can seem to do is try to get him to...well let's just say I wear him out, okay?

I just wish that there was hope out there. I wish there was some actual cure for all this not this merry-go-round of changing meds and therapies and guessing what's going to help and what won't. All just to try to keep me stable enough to pass for "Normal."

Sorry. I just re read what I wrote and I guess I'm more depressed today than I thought.

Mooky: Hey welcome to the Depressed Club. Today is a bad day for me also. I don't really have any urges to hurt myself but I am almost to the point of feeling like I am crawling out of my skin. My pdoc says that is called akasia and is part of Bipolar two caused largely by antidepressants. I am in the process of weaning off of antidepressants (ADs) so I can get on mood stablilizers and it is NOT fun.

I feel very irritable and fed up with the whole thing. I have had this for about 10 years, most of which I was misdiagnosed with just Depression and I have been on ADs the whole time so I am scared about whether or not they will get out of my system and what will I feel like if they do?

I call it being a walking Bio lab and I wish there was a more objective way to evaluate it for our pdocs than just by listening to us--but right now there isn't so I guess we will keep babbling along. I journal a lot, do abstract art and write very bad freeform poetry to try and get it out of my system. Somehow, putting boundaries of pen, pencil or paint and pastels around these symptoms makes them less overwhelming. Of all the syptoms I have had I HATE the ones like today the most.

Somewhere on this board, there is a discussion of "brain burbs" or flashes of thinking to hurt oneself without really having any desire or intention to do it; PLEASE if you ever feel more that one of these odd blips---CALL SOMEONE--promise?

I hope we both feel better soon.

Jules: I thought I should add, I don't think you downgraded hypomania as a symptom. Its just that I experience mostly its negative side---Irritablility, loss of concentration, worry in hyperdrive, etc. I could probably count on my fingers the number of times I have felt the "positive end" such as increased productivity or creativity, and then I always had such a bad crash to pure depression afterwards (no wonder me, my pdocs, and everyone else were so confused). I also have a phobic type response to some situations like going to crowded places (like Walmart) at times it takes all the resolve I have to do it. But I can do it, so its not a true phobia, just part of the anxiety end of things. Oh--and Social Security says I am not disabled and should just get a "lower stress job'. Hah.

I guess I am one of the fortunate ones who got to experience years of focused productive happy hypomanias mixed with mild to moderate depression. It wasn't until during the most stressful period of my life that I was put on lithium which I was allergic to and then an antidepressant that I began to experience the HORRIBLE mixed episodes and anxiety hypomanias.

Maybe 5 or 10 years from now people won't have to experience our lengthy learning curve. At least I wasn't diagnosed in the 50s. They might have given me a lobotomy.

you all have SOO much to say... bleh :-|

Boy this topic is getting long. Sorry. I just wanted to add that one of my PDOCs finally explained to me when she wants me to mark any of the elevated ones. She said that any time my speech starts to speed up, I change topic back and forth or seem to be hurrying through my life faster than the average person I'm elevated.
I have a hard time noticing these times so I asked my daughter, who's a very good support person, to let me know any time I seem to be starting a bit of manic action.
Depressed I can spot on my own.
Once again I have backtracked and changed my graph to match what I should have been marking.
Some day I'll get this all right.

Mooky---I honestly don't think there is a right or wrong way to use the mood chart, but if you pdoc is using it too and wants you to note a specific thing--then by all means do it that way. Manic is harder to spot than depressed, thats for sure. And then, I get both at once (mixed moods). Yeech--I don't really think you can graph those because the graph isolates each mood but you can really feel both at the same time.

I think when I get emotional it totally changes my moods, if I have a fight with my fiancee I can get depressed for days even when we make up right away.